Music lawyer needed for advice

[CloudsAboveCities]

Hey i'm luke from band "Clouds Above Cities"
A while ago we wrote 2 songs, later out singer left and we got a new one, when the old singer left he told us we could keep the lyrics. We carried on perfectly fine for 2 months then he started hastleing us that he wanted his lyrics back, as we had no proof he said we could have them we had to give them back to him or give him a percentage if we ever make money.
So we started rewriting the lyrics when he told us that we couldn't just rewrite them and that he owned the timings in which he sings the lyrics so we would have to change the timing of the whole song.
I was just wondering if it was true that he owned the timing or if we actually do have to redo the song?

Any help would be apreciated. Thanks.
You can reply to this or contact me directly on deadairspace@hotmail.co.uk
Thanks
Luke

[Velvett Fogg]

Hi Luke,

First of all
WELCOME to the forum,
and we hope you take a look around.

Thanks for your post, and hopefully, this will help.

As far as the lyrics are concerned, unless the writer as any form of copyright,
or logged date of writing of the lyrics, he has very little chance of proving anything.

Timings!!, what he talking about???
You can interpret the song anyway you wish.
If he has the song and lyrics recored and logged,
than that's a different matter!!

It would appear to me, that it is not you, who needs the proof of ownership,
but indeed him, who needs to prove he wrote it!


Obviously if his lyrics are date logged, and you have changed them, but they look similar,
he may have a case, but is he really going to persue this legally!

If it was me, I would just write my own set of lyrics, which were totally new,
and as far from the original as possible.

[CloudsAboveCities]

Hey, thanks for your help, so you're saying if he has no proof they're his then we can keep them?
He was the first to write them so the date on his computer files are like 2008. But then again i made a file yesterday and changed the date to 2003 by changin the date on my computer, so would that count as ligit proof they're his?
Also we recorded when with him so the way he sings the songs are on there, but are you saying we can re write lyrics and no matter what they're good to go? as we wrote them ourselves and we can interpret the music however we want.[hr]
also the new lyrics we wrote for the song were compleatly different to his, different theme, different words to begin each line, but the lyrics he wrote were derived from the lyrics so our new lyrics don't have much room to change so they sound the same timing wise.

[Velvett Fogg]

Luke,
I am not a legal person, but basically, in my opinion,
if he does not have proof, then there is no problem.
If he has PC files (whether you have altered yours or not),
then it doesn't matter, as long as you have not used his lyrics.
However if he has the song recorded, and your song/music sounds the same,
then you may have a problem!

Like all matters legally, it depends how much money he wants to throw
for legal representation to prove what??
As far as I'm concerned, it's not up to you to prove anything,
it's up to him to prove you've infringed copyright,
that's indeed, if has has one at all!

I would like to point out, that this is my opinion from experience
and in no way represents a legal judgement from
myself personally or on behalf of Unsigned City.

This post is made 'Without Prejudice'

[Dave Scotford]

Hey!

I studies contract law for a couple of years and did Copyright issues as part of the course (all be it an A Level). I'm not solicitor so the info below is only basic, my advice would be to go and speak to a lawyer.

Contracts can be made verbally, implied by conduct or done in writing. A person must prove they own the copyright if they are making a claim to it. In this case your former vocalist would need to prove they wrote it. Simply having a copy of it on the PC or whatever isn't enough, regardless of the date-stamp, because as you've proved, the date can be changed - if he takes you to court then a simple demonstration of changing dates could be done and it would ruin his evidence.

'Good' proof can be sending the lyrics through the post office to yourself via recorded delivery. That way you have a date stamp on the day you sent it. Leave it unopened to.

The timing thing is rubbish - he has no idea what he is talking about.

In terms of anything, it would be up to him to prove the band have done anything wrong, you don't have to prove anything unless the judge asks you to (if it ever gets that far!)

Again, these are personal opinions and you should seek qualified and proper legal advice! This information is posted without prejudice.